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 Post subject: Re: sysvinit-systemd-upstart
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:02 am
Posts: 1100
Location: Clinton Township, Michigan
Good discussion. I've not really encountered too many problems with systemd, except for the facts that:

1. There are a lot of dependent packages, and that causes packaging bloat.
2. Distribution tools that rely on different init workflows and commands require modified start, stop, restart, halt, and reboot routines; if these are not changed in the distribution and systemd "takes over" then the affected tools break.

Trying to keep antiX small will be a greater challenge. I'll say this, though. On my antiX 13.2 system, I have Debian Testing enabled and it went to systemd some time ago; the only issues I have are with a few antiX tools not working quite the same; otherwise little impact; it's still fast and efficient.

On my antiX 15 system, I've stuck with what's offered and so far it still works too. I did have a 15 instance somewhere where I mixed the two and had a few minor issues. I also had an experimental instance of MX-14, where I tried to mix the latest Xfce with the new Debian stuff; that's not easily worked without a great deal of screwing around, and it wasn't worth it (at least not right now).

_________________
Brian Masinick
Favorite distros: antiX, MX, Debian Sid


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 Post subject: Re: sysvinit-systemd-upstart
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 4:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:44 am
Posts: 3974
Location: Pecos, Texas
Code:
[email protected]:~
$ inxi -Fxz
System:    Host: biker Kernel: 4.0-4.dmz.1-liquorix-686-pae i686 (32 bit gcc: 4.9.2)
           Desktop: IceWM 1.3.8+githubmod+20150412+960629d
           Distro: antiX-13_386-full Luddite 01 June 2013
Machine:   System: manda product: Intel powered classmate PC v: Gen 1.5L
           Mobo: N/A model: N/A
           Bios: American Megatrends v: CM94515A.86A.0024.2008.0715.1716 date: 07/15/2008
CPU:       Single core Intel Core N270 (-HT-) cache: 512 KB
           flags: (nx pae sse sse2 sse3 ssse3) bmips: 3192
           clock speeds: max: 1600 MHz 1: 1600 MHz 2: 1333 MHz
Graphics:  Card: Intel Mobile 945GSE Express Integrated Graphics Controller
           bus-ID: 00:02.0
           Display Server: X.Org 1.17.1 drivers: intel (unloaded: fbdev,vesa)
           Resolution: [email protected]
           GLX Renderer: Mesa DRI Intel 945GME x86/MMX/SSE2
           GLX Version: 2.1 Mesa 10.5.5 Direct Rendering: Yes
Audio:     Card Intel NM10/ICH7 Family High Definition Audio Controller
           driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:1b.0
           Sound: ALSA v: k4.0-4.dmz.1-liquorix-686-pae
Network:   Card: Realtek RTL8101E/RTL8102E PCI Express Fast Ethernet controller
           driver: r8169 v: 2.3LK-NAPI port: ec00 bus-ID: 01:00.0
           IF: eth1 state: down mac: <filter>
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 63.3GB (60.3% used)
           ID-1: /dev/sda model: KingSpec_KSD size: 63.3GB
Partition: ID-1: / size: 59G used: 36G (65%) fs: ext2 dev: /dev/sda1
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 66.0C mobo: N/A
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A
Info:      Processes: 112 Uptime: 1:32 Memory: 360.6/994.9MB
           Init: SysVinit runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: 4.9.2
           Client: Shell (bash 4.3.331) inxi: 2.2.21
[email protected]:~
$ inxi -r
Repos:     Active apt sources in file: etc/apt/sources.list.d/antix.list
           deb http://antix.daveserver.info/testing/ testing main
           Active apt sources in file: etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list
           deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free
           deb http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main contrib non-free
           Active apt sources in file: etc/apt/sources.list.d/liquorix.list
           deb http://liquorix.net/debian/ sid main
           Active apt sources in file: etc/apt/sources.list.d/various.list
           deb http://mozilla.debian.net/ experimental iceweasel-beta
           deb http://www.duinsoft.nl/pkg/ debs all
[email protected]:~
$ cat /proc/1/comm
init
[email protected]:~$
[email protected]:/home/harry# apt-get dist-upgrade
Done
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[email protected]:/home/harry#


Code:
$ sux
Password:
bash: cannot set terminal process group (-1): Inappropriate ioctl for device
bash: no job control in this shell
[email protected]:/home/harry# updatedb
[email protected]:/home/harry# locate systemd
etc/systemd
etc/apt/preferences.d/systemd
etc/systemd/system
etc/systemd/user
etc/systemd/system/bluetooth.target.wants
etc/systemd/system/cgmanager.service
etc/systemd/system/cgproxy.service
etc/systemd/system/dbus-org.bluez.service
etc/systemd/system/getty.target.wants
etc/systemd/system/halt.target.wants
etc/systemd/system/local-fs.target.wants
etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants
etc/systemd/system/nginx.service
etc/systemd/system/paths.target.wants
etc/systemd/system/poweroff.target.wants
etc/systemd/system/printer.target.wants
etc/systemd/system/reboot.target.wants
etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants
etc/systemd/system/sshd.service
etc/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants
etc/systemd/system/syslog.service
etc/systemd/system/bluetooth.target.wants/bluetooth.service
[email protected]
etc/systemd/system/halt.target.wants/hwclock-save.service
etc/systemd/system/local-fs.target.wants/lvm2-activation-early.service
etc/systemd/system/local-fs.target.wants/lvm2-activation.service
etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/cron.service
etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/dns-clean.service
etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/lm-sensors.service
etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/nginx.service
etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/pppd-dns.service
etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/remote-fs.target
etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/rsyslog.service
etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/smartd.service
etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/ssh.service
etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/transmission-daemon.service
etc/systemd/system/paths.target.wants/acpid.path
etc/systemd/system/poweroff.target.wants/hwclock-save.service
etc/systemd/system/printer.target.wants/cups.service
etc/systemd/system/reboot.target.wants/hwclock-save.service
etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/acpi-fakekey.socket
etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/acpid.socket
etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/cups.socket
etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/dm-event.socket
etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/lvm2-lvmetad.socket
etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/uuidd.socket
etc/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/lvm2-lvmetad.socket
etc/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/lvm2-monitor.service
etc/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/resolvconf.service
etc/systemd/user/user
/home/harry/systemd.pdf
/home/harry/.config/systemd
/home/harry/.config/systemd/user
/home/harry/.local/share/systemd
/home/harry/.local/share/systemd/user
/lib/systemd
/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libsystemd.so.0
/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libsystemd.so.0.3.1
/lib/systemd/system
/lib/systemd/systemd-udevd
/lib/systemd/system/acpi-fakekey.service
/lib/systemd/system/acpi-fakekey.socket
/lib/systemd/system/acpid.path
/lib/systemd/system/acpid.service
/lib/systemd/system/acpid.socket
/lib/systemd/system/alsa-restore.service
/lib/systemd/system/alsa-state.service
/lib/systemd/system/alsa-store.service
/lib/systemd/system/alsa-utils.service
/lib/systemd/system/basic.target.wants
/lib/systemd/system/bluetooth.service
/lib/systemd/system/configure-printer@.service
/lib/systemd/system/console-kit-daemon.service
/lib/systemd/system/console-kit-log-system-restart.service
/lib/systemd/system/console-kit-log-system-start.service
/lib/systemd/system/console-kit-log-system-stop.service
/lib/systemd/system/cron.service
/lib/systemd/system/cups.path
/lib/systemd/system/cups.service
/lib/systemd/system/cups.socket
/lib/systemd/system/dbus.service
/lib/systemd/system/dbus.socket
/lib/systemd/system/dbus.target.wants
/lib/systemd/system/dm-event.service
/lib/systemd/system/dm-event.socket
/lib/systemd/system/dns-clean.service
/lib/systemd/system/halt.target.wants
/lib/systemd/system/lm-sensors.service
/lib/systemd/system/lvm2-activation-early.service
/lib/systemd/system/lvm2-activation.service
/lib/systemd/system/lvm2-lvmetad.service
/lib/systemd/system/lvm2-lvmetad.socket
/lib/systemd/system/lvm2-monitor.service
/lib/systemd/system/lvm2-pvscan@.service
/lib/systemd/system/lvm2.service
/lib/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants
/lib/systemd/system/poweroff.target.wants
/lib/systemd/system/pppd-dns.service
/lib/systemd/system/reboot.target.wants
/lib/systemd/system/resolvconf.service
/lib/systemd/system/rsync.service
/lib/systemd/system/rsyslog.service
/lib/systemd/system/saned.socket
/lib/systemd/system/saned@.service
/lib/systemd/system/screen-cleanup.service
/lib/systemd/system/shutdown.target.wants
/lib/systemd/system/smartd.service
/lib/systemd/system/smartmontools.service
/lib/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants
/lib/systemd/system/ssh.service
/lib/systemd/system/ssh.socket
/lib/systemd/system/ssh@.service
/lib/systemd/system/sudo.service
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udev-settle.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udev-trigger.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udevd-control.socket
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udevd-kernel.socket
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udevd.service
/lib/systemd/system/transmission-daemon.service
/lib/systemd/system/udev-finish.service
/lib/systemd/system/udev.service
/lib/systemd/system/udisks.service
/lib/systemd/system/upower.service
/lib/systemd/system/usb_modeswitch@.service
/lib/systemd/system/usbmuxd.service
/lib/systemd/system/uuidd.service
/lib/systemd/system/uuidd.socket
/lib/systemd/system/wpa_supplicant.service
/lib/systemd/system/basic.target.wants/alsa-restore.service
/lib/systemd/system/basic.target.wants/alsa-state.service
/lib/systemd/system/basic.target.wants/console-kit-log-system-start.service
/lib/systemd/system/dbus.target.wants/dbus.socket
/lib/systemd/system/halt.target.wants/console-kit-log-system-stop.service
/lib/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/dbus.service
/lib/systemd/system/poweroff.target.wants/console-kit-log-system-stop.service
/lib/systemd/system/reboot.target.wants/console-kit-log-system-restart.service
/lib/systemd/system/shutdown.target.wants/alsa-store.service
/lib/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/dbus.socket
/lib/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/systemd-udevd-control.socket
/lib/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/systemd-udevd-kernel.socket
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/systemd-udev-trigger.service
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/systemd-udevd.service
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/udev-finish.service
/usr/bin/deb-systemd-helper
/usr/bin/deb-systemd-invoke
/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/systemd
/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/systemd/system
/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/systemd/system/devmon@.service
/usr/share/doc/libsystemd0
/usr/share/doc/libsystemd0/changelog.Debian.gz
/usr/share/doc/libsystemd0/copyright
/usr/share/man/man1/deb-systemd-helper.1p.gz
/usr/share/man/man1/deb-systemd-invoke.1p.gz
/usr/share/man/man8/systemd-udevd-control.socket.8.gz
/usr/share/man/man8/systemd-udevd-kernel.socket.8.gz
/usr/share/man/man8/systemd-udevd.8.gz
/usr/share/man/man8/systemd-udevd.service.8.gz
/var/cache/apt/archives/libpam-systemd_208-8_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/libpam-systemd_215-12_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/libpam-systemd_215-14_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/libpam-systemd_215-17_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/libsystemd-daemon0_208-8_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/libsystemd-daemon0_215-12_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/libsystemd-id128-0_208-8_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/libsystemd-id128-0_215-12_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/libsystemd-journal0_208-8_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/libsystemd-journal0_215-12_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/libsystemd-login0_208-8_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/libsystemd-login0_215-12_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/libsystemd0_215-12_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/libsystemd0_215-14_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/libsystemd0_215-17_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/systemd-shim_9-1_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/systemd-sysv_208-8_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/systemd-sysv_215-12_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/systemd-sysv_215-14_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/systemd-sysv_215-17_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/systemd_208-8_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/systemd_215-12_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/systemd_215-14_i386.deb
/var/cache/apt/archives/systemd_215-17_i386.deb
/var/lib/systemd
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libsystemd-daemon0:i386.list
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libsystemd-daemon0:i386.postrm
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libsystemd-id128-0:i386.list
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libsystemd-id128-0:i386.postrm
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libsystemd-journal0:i386.list
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libsystemd-journal0:i386.postrm
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libsystemd-login0:i386.list
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libsystemd-login0:i386.postrm
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libsystemd0:i386.list
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libsystemd0:i386.md5sums
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libsystemd0:i386.postinst
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libsystemd0:i386.postrm
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libsystemd0:i386.shlibs
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libsystemd0:i386.symbols
/var/lib/dpkg/info/systemd-shim.list
/var/lib/dpkg/info/systemd-shim.postrm
/var/lib/systemd/coredump
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-masked
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/acpi-fakekey.socket.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/acpid.path.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/acpid.service.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/acpid.socket.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/bluetooth.service.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/bluetooth.target.wants
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/cgmanager.service.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/cgproxy.service.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/cron.service.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/cups.path.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/cups.service.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/cups.socket.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/dbus-org.bluez.service
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/dm-event.service.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/dm-event.socket.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/dns-clean.service.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/lm-sensors.service.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/local-fs.target.wants
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/lvm2-activation-early.service.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/lvm2-activation.service.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/lvm2-lvmetad.socket.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/lvm2-monitor.service.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/multi-user.target.wants
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/nginx.service.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/paths.target.wants
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/pppd-dns.service.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/printer.target.wants
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/resolvconf.service.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/rsyslog.service.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/saned.socket.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/smartd.service.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/sockets.target.wants
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/ssh.service.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/ssh.socket.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/sshd.service
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/sysinit.target.wants
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/syslog.service
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/transmission-daemon.service.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/uuidd.service.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/uuidd.socket.dsh-also
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/bluetooth.target.wants/bluetooth.service
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/local-fs.target.wants/lvm2-activation-early.service
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/local-fs.target.wants/lvm2-activation.service
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/multi-user.target.wants/cron.service
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/multi-user.target.wants/cups.path
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/multi-user.target.wants/dns-clean.service
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/multi-user.target.wants/lm-sensors.service
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/multi-user.target.wants/nginx.service
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/multi-user.target.wants/pppd-dns.service
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/multi-user.target.wants/rsyslog.service
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/multi-user.target.wants/smartd.service
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/multi-user.target.wants/ssh.service
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/multi-user.target.wants/transmission-daemon.service
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/paths.target.wants/acpid.path
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/printer.target.wants/cups.service
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/sockets.target.wants/acpi-fakekey.socket
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/sockets.target.wants/acpid.socket
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/sockets.target.wants/cups.socket
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/sockets.target.wants/dm-event.socket
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/sockets.target.wants/lvm2-lvmetad.socket
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/sockets.target.wants/uuidd.socket
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/sysinit.target.wants/lvm2-lvmetad.socket
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/sysinit.target.wants/lvm2-monitor.service
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/sysinit.target.wants/resolvconf.service
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-masked/cgmanager.service
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-masked/cgproxy.service
/var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-masked/nginx.service
[email protected]:/home/harry#


I used to have systemd. It played havoc on my shutdown and bootup on this netbook. Screen would go dim during boot up and I would use my Fn + Delete keys to turn up my screen brightness 1st after login.
Then shutdown would stop at halt and require a hard shutdown. So I did

http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.p ... stallation

If it breaks.
It breaks. I'm not sweating it.
I'll use a live usb. Save and regroup from there I guess. 8)

_________________
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 Post subject: Re: sysvinit-systemd-upstart
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 6:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:36 am
Posts: 1040
How hard is it to run the two versions like earlier alphas? I ask because it would be far smoother for people who are not really sure how to handle the situation / what the situation is to run something with systemd from the start rather than having to convert due to dependences. For those that know that struggle and are striving to stay with sysv, then it could be chosen and have a notification on the startup window that there will be issues due to the drop from sysv as primary to alternative init in debian. I feel that it was likely these dependency issues that became a large factor for the migration to systemd on debians part as well.

Edit:
I am not saying this to discourage the use of antix repositories on there own but imho, if we are going to be making separately packaged nosystemd versions for continued use of sysv init as a community we should focus on setting a group leader for said efforts whose focus would be to sign up to work the debian repos and upload the packages packaged by the various members of the group to the main debian repos as packagename-nosystemd. I know anticapitalista is already doing this for antiX more or less on his own. However inevitably this will end up as a fork of Debian which facing facts there is not a big enough people base at the moment. However I feel that if people notice a bunch of packages in Main debian repos the ability to find supporting people to help package will be easy to find. This will become especially evident with a solid release of antix as a proof of concept. Antix would then not need to support every package but just whatever is included as default for a solid base to build the nosystemd packages.

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 Post subject: Re: sysvinit-systemd-upstart
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 1:26 am 
Without Systemd Wiki may contain helpful info:

http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

And the Devuan project continues.

On further reading you can remove systemd and pin it to prevent re-installation.

http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_a_Debian_jessie/sid_installation


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 Post subject: Re: sysvinit-systemd-upstart
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 3:45 pm 
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hey I've heard things about this systemd, can anyone tell me what its all about? I mean besides this bloat packages and dependincies... what would be the advantage of systemd in the kernel?

i imagine the systemd errors mentioned above are exceptions right?

so, are we turning to a Andriod type of LinuxOS?


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 Post subject: Re: sysvinit-systemd-upstart
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 4:15 pm 
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"hey I've heard things about this systemd, can anyone tell me what its all about?"

Good thread here explains alot.

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions ... 175422544/

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 Post subject: Re: sysvinit-systemd-upstart
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 4:41 pm 
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rokytnji wrote:
"hey I've heard things about this systemd, can anyone tell me what its all about?"

Good thread here explains alot.

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions ... 175422544/



Yeah, those are good discussions. I'm starting to appreciate more the reasons why many people have been so upset with the systemd approach, especially in the Debian community, where some have gone so far as to fork the distribution.

To me, a better effort would be to create a sub-project within Debian to build an infrastructure capable of supporting multiple initialization systems; clearly there are reasons for each. If you want a flexible system with choices, an upstream, parent-based distribution ought to present those alternatives and people who want to run here or there would be better served helping out the upstream work.

That would be something I'd sign up for; unfortunately that level of work is not my current system level of expertise or primary interest. I hope over time that this works out without forcing a huge percentage of people to completely abandon the infrastructure that has provided some of the coolest software for a decade and a half.

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 Post subject: Re: sysvinit-systemd-upstart
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 4:45 pm 
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thanks for the link

read it, although still not clear how would impact me as a desktop/laptop user.

would it manage better peripherals and conections and stuff like that?

why it is adopted that quickly on many distros, including Debian?


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 Post subject: Re: sysvinit-systemd-upstart
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 4:04 pm 
Quote:
read it, although still not clear how would impact me as a desktop/laptop user.


About 100 years ago, when I was a lowly apprentice, we walked into class one day and our tutor had written on the blackboard, in huge letters, "K.I.S.S."

He then went on to explain that this stood for "Keep it simple, Stupid", because you can design weird and wonderful creations but there is always the person who is going to use it, or operate it, who is going to screw it up big time so keeping it simple makes it easy for you, and your fellow engineers to fix.

Until now, the philosophy of Linux has been to keep it simple, and systemd is not simple, otherwise we would not be having this discussion. You might also like to know that Linus Tourvald himself doesn't like systemd, because obviously a good tutor once taught him "K.I.S.S.".

Broken by design: systemd
http://ewontfix.com/14/


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 Post subject: Re: sysvinit-systemd-upstart
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 12:44 pm 
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removed -- redundant

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 Post subject: Re: sysvinit-systemd-upstart
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:17 pm 
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systemdfree distros right now seem to be only Arch-based Manjaro OpenRC and an overlooked but obvious option: ubuntu 14.04 LTS,
i.e xubuntu or LXLE for old/cheap pc -available until 2017

--so how about switching to Arch base.. Manjaro is the ONLY distro except source based that offers the sane option of choosing (slack is sysv of course)

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 Post subject: Re: sysvinit-systemd-upstart
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:37 pm 
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coyotito wrote:
systemdfree distros right now seem to be only Arch-based
. . .
so how about switching to Arch base
No, coyotito -- that "seems to be only" statement is incorrect. Actually, MANY additional non-systemd distros currently exist.
A few minutes spent reading these will be enlightening for you:
http://refracta.freeforums.org/going-wi ... html#p4859
http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.p ... tributions


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 Post subject: Re: sysvinit-systemd-upstart
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:39 pm 
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thanks. Yes I was wrong but I prefer to exclude source, specialist and alpha stage distros, and distros like Exegnu that will not even boot
on my new budget Lenovo. And those that do not include systemd simply because they have not come to the point of choosing (Slack)

But I recommend this list too. (though if you look into it it's not quite as long as it looks - various respins of slack, f.ex Porteus and Slax, of which Porteus is a remix of Slax)

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Last edited by coyotito on Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: sysvinit-systemd-upstart
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:46 pm 
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Very pleased to see Devuan is actually getting somewhere - was looking for that info. Manjaro's decision to offer a choice in their
'bleeding edge' updated distro is the way to go.

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