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 Post subject: I had a dream next antiX will use systemd
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:38 pm
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That won't happen, right? I hope my dream will be proven false


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 Post subject: Re: I had a dream next antiX will use systemd
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:36 pm 
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Sounds like a nightmare rather than a dream.
antiX will NOT ship with systemd

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 Post subject: Re: I had a dream next antiX will use systemd
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:56 pm 
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Why do you so hate systemd?


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 Post subject: Re: I had a dream next antiX will use systemd
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:11 pm 
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Location: Surrey/Hants Border UK
1) Because it is not the unix way.
2) Because it (evidently) stores data in binary format.
3) Because it is too much like how another O/S works.

There are probably more reasons, but I don't want it, don't use it, & so don't know all of its nightmares. :)

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 Post subject: Re: I had a dream next antiX will use systemd
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:18 pm 
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Location: Vilnius, Lithuania
wean_irdeh wrote:
That won't happen, right? I hope my dream will be proven false

It will be my worst nightmare....

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 Post subject: Re: I had a dream next antiX will use systemd
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:23 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:02 am
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Location: Clinton Township, Michigan
It's always nice to have true "software freedom".

Whether systemd is "good" or not is something that people can debate eternally.

Here is what is true:

1. Systemd was developed primarily (if not exclusively) by an organization with commercial interests (Red Hat). Though they are a reasonably good "free software" citizen - and they adhere to the GNU principles and make source code available, they're more interested in commercial applicability of their software and tools. I've found systemd on other distributions, including Debian and Fedora, to name a couple, to work reasonably well, but it's fairly complicated software, and there certainly are other ways of doing things - many other ways, in fact.

2. Systemd is one alternative to the init daemon; there are many other ways to handle init; I'll note a few of them:
a) OpenRC - a dependency-based init system that works with the system provided init program, normally /sbin/init. It is not a replacement for /sbin/init.
b) eudev - a fork of systemd with the aim of isolating udev from any particular flavor of system initialization.
c) Upstart - an event-based replacement for the /sbin/init daemon which handles starting of tasks and services during boot, stopping them during shutdown and supervising them while the system is running.
d) runit - a cross-platform Unix init scheme with service supervision, a replacement for sysvinit, and other init schemes. It runs on GNU/Linux, *BSD, MacOSX, Solaris, and can easily be adapted to other Unix operating systems.
e) sysvinit - the Linux and UNIX init system most prevalent prior to systemd. The Sysvinit package contains programs for controlling the startup, running, and shutdown of the system.
f) nosh package - a suite of system-level utilities for initializing and running a BSD or Linux system, and for managing daemons.
g) uselessd (the useless daemon, or the daemon that uses less... depending on your viewpoint) is a project to reduce systemd to a base initd and process supervisor, while minimizing intrusiveness and isolationism. Still has some ties to systemd, but reduces reliance on systemd
h) Finit - a small SysV init replacement with process supervision similar to that of daemontools and runit.

So as you can see, there are a LOT of alternatives, and I did not even mention every possible alternative. BSD and UNIX systems have additional alternatives. Though systemd may dominate in some circles, don't worry, there will always be other options as long as free software continues to live on.

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 Post subject: Re: I had a dream next antiX will use systemd
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:35 pm 
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Rademes wrote:
Why do you so hate systemd?

Hello. You can read this article http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

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 Post subject: Re: I had a dream next antiX will use systemd
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:49 pm 
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I will say that I have used other distributions that DO have systemd. It's not a question of whether it works or not; it does, and it actually works pretty well. It's more a matter of software freedom, clean design, and the availability of options that are not closely tied to major corporations and their personal whims.

Fedora (connected to Red Hat) runs and works really well. Years ago, I found Fedora to frequently be unstable; I thought the same of SUSE and openSUSE. Both of them are actually really good distributions with ties to solid, useful, good commercial distributions. It isn't that they aren't good systems; they are. I've found the past couple of releases of each of them to be more appealing (and stable) than I found them to be, say five years ago. But that's not the point.

For something like antiX, we want a reasonably small footprint, or at least the capability to keep things reasonably small. We're a lot smaller than Fedora or openSUSE, but even our software has grown in size, we still want to keep the underlying infrastructure as simple as possible.

Our upstream distribution, Debian, chose to incorporate systemd as it's init daemon handler. That caused such an uproar that other efforts emerged. Debian still has systemd as its default, but as we do with antiX, there are at least methods to go in other directions - and antiX is one Debian-based distribution that continues to use other alternatives.

Anticapitalista can (and has) reassured people that he intends to use alternatives to systemd and that remains the case.

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Favorite distros: antiX, MX, Debian Sid


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 Post subject: Re: I had a dream next antiX will use systemd
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:44 am
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Location: Pecos, Texas
I look at this cruft like I look at motorcycle designing.

Brakes for example. Hydraulic brakes were never needed on a motorcycle. Mechanical linkage would have sufficed. Even in this day and age.

ABS systems are overkill on 2 wheel transport. One does not need to travel at 200 mph <the road and wheel bearings won't support this for long>. Most bikers stay under the 100 mph zone of speed. Unless you are on the autobahn or a Texas Freeway.
But some one needed to sell some master cylinders and slave cylinders and hydraulic fluid.
The dealers needed more invoices when you brakes quit working.

Hydraulic brakes are great for 4 wheel vehicles. There is so much more to control and distribute that control.

When it works. It is great. When not. You are screwed.

Sometimes. Advancement is made so paid support has a purpose in life. Like DRM hardware computers in cars and also motorcycles . Another not needed advancement. Just my opinion as a life long biker. The best motorcycle is the one that takes you to your destination in a reasonable amount of time. Plus. Can be repaired with a small tool kit using a small blanket as a work bench on the side of the road.

In other words. Dependable with ease of owner maintenance. Something the world has moved away from.

I see systemd in the same light.

PS. My dreams are more interesting also, I guess. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: I had a dream next antiX will use systemd
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 6:50 pm
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Have you looked at switching Antix's base from debian to devuan? If not, why not? Just curious.


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 Post subject: Re: I had a dream next antiX will use systemd
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:42 pm 
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Been asked before - see here:

devuan-based-antix-t6743.html

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 Post subject: Re: I had a dream next antiX will use systemd
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:37 pm 
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rokytnji wrote:
The best motorcycle is the one that takes you to your destination in a reasonable amount of time. Plus. Can be repaired with a small tool kit using a small blanket as a work bench on the side of the road.

Then this motorcycle is for you: http://cdn.tvc.ru/pictures/o/125/744.jpg


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