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 Post subject: GTK fesses up – this ain’t for you; Qt takes over the world
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:28 pm 
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Have a read of this from the dev of SpaceFM.

https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2014/01 ... the-world/

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 Post subject: Re: GTK fesses up – this ain’t for you; Qt takes over the wo
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:34 am 
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All I gotta say is remember when every body wished Linux/AntiX to become main stream and I replied, "Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it."

It ruined motorcycling becoming main stream. IT'LL RUIN GNU/LINUX/(and every thing else) ALSO I GUESS.

I never cottoned to being main stream. But I guess I'll be assimilated just the same.
Posted from Chromium Browser.

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 Post subject: Re: GTK fesses up – this ain’t for you; Qt takes over the wo
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:37 am 
Got to say that i agree with his statements. Though more from looking at the userbase LInux has now (From what i see, which is a generalization).
Assuming he is right bout GTK and QT: BSD uses them too, so that is not an option.
Thanks for the link, good read.


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 Post subject: Re: GTK fesses up – this ain’t for you; Qt takes over the wo
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:10 am 
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I agree that there seems to be a lot of pressure from some people at RedHat and elsewhere to Windowize Linux. But I feel the connection to Google is tenuous at best. I didn't understand why not buying QT made Google culpable of trying to control Linux. ISTM an even better argument could be made if they did buy QT. We are all feeling a lot of pressure from Corporate America (and Corporate elsewhere, I suppose) but I don't see why Google is to blame for everything. I'm not claiming Google is blameless but there is plenty of blame to go around and there are plenty of corporations that are much worse than Google IMO. I think the piece would have been much stronger if the Google connections were substantiated or lacking that, if they were just left out. I find it very hard to believe that systemd is part of a Google plot. IIRC, they fought to keep udev out of Android.

TBH, I am sick and tired of the plethora of anti-Google smears that have been covertly funded by Microsoft and other corporations that are trying to damage Google any way they can. They are using many of the dirty tricks from the Karl Rove playbook. This pattern of behavior was documented over the course of years at the Groklaw web site. I certainly don't think the SpaceFM dev was getting money from Microsoft for this but I suspect maybe the covertly funded smears are paying off and in the eyes of many people Google has become the scapegoat for all corporate evil.

BTW the most recent issue of Adbusters, with the comic-book like "display until" date of April 15, 2014, is just fabulous. The cover has the words A Guide for the Perplexed at the bottom. Inside the magazine, the first word is spiritual inside a cartoon bubble. On the next page, the second word is vacuum, also inside a cartoon bubble.

Here are a few other tidbits:
Adbusters wrote:
A factory dumps pollution into the water or air because that’s the most efficient way to produce plastic or wood pulp or steel. A TV station, magazine or website dispenses sex and violence and “pollutes” the cultural environment because that’s the most efficient way to produce audiences. It pays to pollute. The psychic fallout is just the cost of doing business.

The West has lost the centrality of the human person as a guide to how we should live in the future.

When you cut off arterial blood to an organ, the organ dies. When you cut the flow of nature into people's lives, their spirit dies. It's as simple as that.

People today recognize fewer than 10 plants but over 1000 corporate logos.

It took living in a tent and spending 10 hours a day in nature to realize the extent to which capitalism has permeated my mind. It has come to a point where human beings find existential meaning in consumption, rather than through introspection.

Given this larger context, I think it is a serious mistake to simply blame everything on Google. It is a distraction from the real battle.

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 Post subject: Re: GTK fesses up – this ain’t for you; Qt takes over the wo
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:53 pm 
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Nice post BitJam. I know what you mean being from the Desert South West.

City Folks up North have no clue on how I live or think.

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 Post subject: Re: GTK fesses up – this ain’t for you; Qt takes over the wo
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:53 pm 
If google earth drives through the streets and scans for each and every router's MAC (and stores it in a database), then that is hardly the fault of Microsoft.
No need to blame everything on google, but there still is enough left.

There are higher goals than being better than Microsoft.


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 Post subject: Re: GTK fesses up – this ain’t for you; Qt takes over the wo
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:35 pm 
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I don't see how that implicates Google in the systemd initiative. Or in trying to take over the Linux desktop with both GTK and QT. Are you saying: "Google has done at least one bad thing therefore all bad things are Google's fault"?

Blaming the wrong entity for things we don't like is extremely counterproductive. It fosters the behavior one claims to dislike. My point was not that Google is blameless in all things. My point was that the article blames everything on Google without providing any evidence and despite strong evidence that Google is not involved in the plots outlined in the article.

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 Post subject: Re: GTK fesses up – this ain’t for you; Qt takes over the wo
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:13 am 
What i posted was targeted at this paragraph:
Quote:
TBH, I am sick and tired of the plethora of anti-Google smears that have been covertly funded by Microsoft and other corporations that are trying to damage Google any way they can. They are using many of the dirty tricks from the Karl Rove playbook. This pattern of behavior was documented over the course of years at the Groklaw web site. I certainly don't think the SpaceFM dev was getting money from Microsoft for this but I suspect maybe the covertly funded smears are paying off and in the eyes of many people Google has become the scapegoat for all corporate evil.


"At least one bad thing" is underexaggerated. I gave one example, but there are a lot.

I got no idea in what google is involved (there is the joke how much google paid for how many lines of code in firefox). But i do know that a monopol is seldom a good thing. Microsoft gave us a good example why that is a bad thing.


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 Post subject: Re: GTK fesses up – this ain’t for you; Qt takes over the wo
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:34 am 
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Again, what is your point? I've already made it clear that I'm not claiming Google is blameless. Is your point that since Google has done at least one bad thing then the Microsoft political-sleeze attacks are fiction? I cited the Groklaw for evidence of my claim but here is some more.

Fairness Is MIA in FairSearch.org

What is FairSearch and why does it hate Google so much?

Why FairSearch Can't Find Anyone To Listen To Its Anti-Google Tirades

Fairsearch is just one branch of attack.

Another example that comes to mind is when Google tried to get the US Congress to pass a pro net-neutrality law. For some reason, the main talking point around this issue was "Why is Google against net neutrality?". That attack is directly from the Karl Rove playbook. It is called "attack your enemies strengths". I don't have proof that links that attack to Microsoft but such a complete distortion is hardly the result of a free and unbiased press. After a while I stopped researching every single anti-Google smear.

IMO, the biggest potential issue facing FOSS ATM is the effort by Oracle and Microsoft and others to drastically change how copyright applies to software by making APIs protectable under copyright. This could easily squash FOSS in one blow. For example, Samba would be illegal. Even Linux could be violating copyright depending on who created some of the ancient Unix APIs. Reverse engineering of protocols would be illegal. Software could not inter-operate with other software without license agreements. There would be no point to do white room implementations because they too would be illegal. If this has been the law of the land when the IBM PC came out then IBM would have had a stranglehold on the PC market because it would have been illegal to reverse engineer IBM's BIOS. Is anyone with deep pockets taking the FOSS side in this battle? Yes, Google is.

To get back on topic. You said you agree with the article. Do you honestly think that Google is behind systemd and is also trying to somehow take over the Linux desktop with GTK and QT? Can you point to any evidence for this besides the general claim that Google does bad things?

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 Post subject: Re: GTK fesses up – this ain’t for you; Qt takes over the wo
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:50 am 
BitJam wrote:
Again, what is your point?

I made my point clear already.

Quote:
To get back on topic. You said you agree with the article. Do you honestly think that Google is behind systemd and is also trying to somehow take over the Linux desktop with GTK and QT? Can you point to any evidence for this besides the general claim that Google does bad things?

No to question one and hence no to question two too (It can be, but that is not what i am saying).
I also think i was clear when i said that i agree with the article.

I didn't like google much for it's monopol before i ran into the freedombox project. After i heard some speeches by Moglen (and from others, not related to the freedombox project) i didn't like it a bit more. I will not list each and every problem myself. The videos are online (of course at youtube, sic).
That i am not very impressed by the LInux-user community anymore is not related to that (Probably it is, something around "it is still better than Microsoft" no matter what comes, but that is too exhausting to talk about).

If you think that the Linux operating system (including android, which doesn't come with gnu-coreutils) is on the right track: fine for me. If you think the corporation Google - in general - does good in what it does: fine for me too (That it also does good things is obvious. I speak of the umbrella-corporation aspect of it, it has a defacto monopol on several aspects of the internet). I for one can't see both, at least for what i have in mind.
In the end future will tell what will happen to Linux. Looking at android, all the things i _can't_ do with it, i don't see good things to come.


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 Post subject: Re: GTK fesses up – this ain’t for you; Qt takes over the wo
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:37 pm 
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Quote:
If you think that the Linux operating system (including android, which doesn't come with gnu-coreutils) is on the right track: fine for me. If you think the corporation Google - in general - does good in what it does: fine for me too (That it also does good things is obvious. I speak of the umbrella-corporation aspect of it, it has a defacto monopol on several aspects of the internet). I for one can't see both, at least for what i have in mind.
In the end future will tell what will happen to Linux. Looking at android, all the things i _can't_ do with it, i don't see good things to come.


Well now. I'm sure we have all seen

"Why can't linux desktop become more main stream? Why can't there be a central way for Linux to install anything?
We need a Central Package Management system like Windows. One click and you are done. Why can't Linux be
more like Windows? Linux is for Geeks only. Linux has no hardware support. Linux can't print. Linux is a hobby system."

So Google/Android/Tablets/Chrome pick up the torch and make it main stream and with large deep pockets.
Addresses some of those complaints and issues.

I swear. Linux users bear a close resemblance to old outlaw bikers like me.

"Friggin rubes/posers. They ruined everything. Parts prices went up. I saw the judge that sentenced my bro to prison
at a biker run on a Harley pretending he was one of us. They build these bikes like bic lighters now. Great when they work.
Scrap it when it breaks. I can't work on these new scooters on the side of the road like in the old days.
Biker runs are no fun anymore. They are just credit card tourist traps now."

You guys make me grin like the Cheshire Cat in "Alice in Wonderland".

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: GTK fesses up – this ain’t for you; Qt takes over the wo
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:16 pm 
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Just because Google is an Evil Empire does not automatically make them the Evil Empire behind this plot.


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