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 Post subject: Re: antiX-17 - stretch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:13 pm 
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Hopefully this will work for you to get a copy. :)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9m3KL ... sp=sharing

Edit: This is for 16.1 x64 base installed system.

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 Post subject: Re: antiX-17 - stretch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:15 pm 
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thanks for posting the list, fatmac.
a copy is now attached in the reference topic info-detailed-comparison-contents-of-full-vs-base-version-t6451.html

Quote:
Is there enough on antiX-base as is presently is to be the cd sized iso?


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 Post subject: Re: antiX-17 - stretch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:40 pm 
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@skidoo, @fatmac

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: antiX-17 - stretch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:00 pm 
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You're welcome. :)

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 Post subject: Re: antiX-17 - stretch
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:55 pm 
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I burn the iso to a dvd typically and then install to the hard drive. I don't need a cd sized iso usually except it is helpful when your going over to a friend's house and you are installing on a computer you know nothing about. A 32bit cd is universal-it works on pretty much anything.

I would like to point out there are few good cd sized distros left anymore. Most of them are fairly specialized. AntiX is probably the last of the cd sized general use distros that I would recommend to a beginner with old hardware for a hard drive install. I hope a cd image will be continued to be offered at least for 32bit. Could there be a special 32bit cd image be made? If deleting libreoffice and having just one window manager is the way to do that I say great. I think icewm or jwm would be probably the better choice since you have a start button. I use fluxbox myself but a new user may have trouble figuring out you need to “right click for menu” unless it's documented well or you write it on the default wallpaper.


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 Post subject: Re: antiX-17 - stretch
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:57 pm 
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mroot, fyi, previous topics have already "discussed and analyzed" themes & WMs.
Culling the number of pre-installed themes would be useful toward achieving a smaller iso, but only by (4?) a few Mb.
Excluding themes, the total cumulative size (icewm plus jwm plus fluxbox) of "window manager" files is less than 10Mb total,
and that total represents "size on disk" (vs lesser size when compressed into the iso).


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 Post subject: Re: antiX-17 - stretch
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:12 pm 
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I understand the size issue. It was discussed in antiX 16 thread in development back in Feb 2016:

antix-16-t6141-75.html



To quote myself:

"There is a strong commitment to keep the ISO smaller than CD size, support old hardware, and support computers with limited or no internet access. The ISO images do this but they have a lot of added features that support people like me. I want fluxbox and icewm and lots of cool themes, wallpapers, small programs etc. I want something that is easy to customize. We are getting to the point where it may not be possible to do all these things."

Savings from the loss of window managers is minimal but it is space savings. I understood last year a cd size iso was getting less and less likely. I am just sorry to see the cd iso era end.

Best Wishes,

Mroot


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 Post subject: Re: antiX-17 - stretch
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:46 pm 
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anticapitalista wrote:
Every new release sees a fattening of our base (Debian).

A first pre-alpha build of antiX-full based on stretch (soon to be new stable) adds 100MB to the iso size making it c800MB, therefore no longer fitting on a cd,

Should we keep full to still fit on a cd?
If so, removing libreoffice gets the iso down to c705MB, so we would have to trim the fat elsewhere as well.

Post thoughts, comments, ideas

AFAIK Debian supports multiple install CDs, a CD set. Why don't you offer a base fitting on a CD plus a 2nd CD with libreoffice and maybe additional software. If people need just everything on CD, they can burn 2. If they can install from the internet, they still burn 1 and install libreoffice from the net.


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 Post subject: Re: antiX-17 - stretch
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:22 am 
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+1 @ Jens
I would make a base and add a metapackage for full. That way it can be downloaded easily. Then everything that is needed in that update place in an iso image that can be added to apt source list for an easy 2 cds. And a DVD for everyone else.

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 Post subject: Re: antiX-17 - stretch
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:50 am 
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Thanks for all the input.

Just to clarify that we WILL ship a version of antiX that will fit on a cd (not including net/core).
Full as it is no longer fits on a cd. Removing libreoffice gets it close to 700MB, but then IMO it is no longer "Full". So, it seems to me the best way is for Full to be no longer cd size, but I have no intention of adding 'bloat' to make it more than what we already have except adding extra drivers, printer support that takes the iso to c800MB).

Base will be the cd version. An idea I have is for it to basically be as it is, but also to include IceWM and libreoffice. I need to test it out but it might just fit on a cd.

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 Post subject: Re: antiX-17 - stretch
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:41 am 
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I'd make sure the version most people get is easy to install, configure and run. I read some reviews of 16 and some people said it wasn't pretty enough, but just as many were asking for better WiFii support. I think these days if WiFi doesn't work, many will just move on to something else, because they can't even get online to diagnose it easily. The more drivers are built in, the less hassle it will likely be to get up and running, and result in happier newbies that will stick around and have fewer troubles.

I'd make sure there was a CD version with at least ICEwm. I have to say, I haven't opened LibreOffice in at least 2 years, so to me, as long as it would be super easy to install on the from the web, I think that would be acceptable for the CD version. I doubt many people are going to be doing fancy word processing or spreadsheets from a live CD, or without internet. Give them good WiFi and a good browser and they can do it online in a pinch.

Just my 2 cents worth.

PS: I do still burn CD's because they work almost universally

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 Post subject: Re: antiX-17 - stretch
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:23 pm 
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anticapitalista wrote:
So, it seems to me the best way is for Full to be no longer cd size, but I have no intention of adding 'bloat' to make it more than what we already have except adding extra drivers, printer support that takes the iso to c800MB).

Base will be the cd version. An idea I have is for it to basically be as it is, but also to include IceWM and libreoffice. I need to test it out but it might just fit on a cd.
This is difficult to grasp...

If I understand correctly, the new (<800MB) Full contains LibreOffice (LO) plus extra printing support to cater for it. Is the idea to add LO to the new (>700MB) Base without the extra printing support to cater for it?

Extra printing support will be beneficial to LO because printing is central to its raison-d'etre. It seems off-kilter, to add it to Full yet potentially not Base, when the same motivating app (LO) is being considered for inclusion.

Doing this might not only produce inequality and disparity, it also takes us to the brink of having to deal with the CD size problem again at the end of the next development cycle. We will be simply deferring the same problem for a short while.

It seems to have greater benefit to leave LO out of the new Base and utilise some space for network drivers, extra kernel, video drivers. These are the things that get the user up and running.

thriftee wrote:
I doubt many people are going to be doing fancy word processing or spreadsheets from a live CD, or without internet.
I think this says it quite succinctly.

Putting the development emphasis on the ease of taking Base to Full is likely to return the biggest dividend. The main thrust of the effort will be best directed towards the usability aspect of this. Users should be able to do it in exactly the same way whether running Live or Disk installation.


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 Post subject: Re: antiX-17 - stretch
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:52 pm 
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I'm sorry to disagree, but adding the full office suite to base will leave those of us who only basically want a distro with wifi & a web browser, out in the cold. :(

If you must add WP & SS, I'd suggest you use Gnumeric & Abiword.

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 Post subject: Re: antiX-17 - stretch
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:21 pm 
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I vote to keep base as base. But ok, include icewm, if that is a thing for some.
How much do you change LO for antix? Could you make a "install lo" option somewhere, and have it fit on a cd?
I don't use libre office, or a printer, so I really don't care about those, but I can see that some would want them in a full install.

If that is not easy enough, I think it might be time to give up, and go to a dvd size for full.
I assume having yet another version, IE base plus would be a bit much work?
Maybe a base plus (office and stuff) to use live, which can be upgraded to a full install when installed?

Ok, I am just throwing out ideas. or something...
I would rather have a full install which is not gimped to fit a cd, than a "half broken" cd sized one.


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 Post subject: Re: antiX-17 - stretch
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:27 pm 
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I don't have any experience with computers which would boot from a CD only.
Maybe we need to identify these models, sum up their specs and see what their users would need.
For example, is practical to run heavy applications like LibreOffice from a Live CD? I would expect that this would be painfully slow, loud and probably crash the system anyway as there is not enough RAM unless you mount a swap partition.
So, it would be probably enough to ship with a CD sized Base edition without LibreOffice.


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