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 Post subject: antiX-16
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:18 am 
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What do you want antiX-16 to be like?

Just to make it clear before you make any requests -

1. antiX will NOT ship with any desktop environment.
2. antiX will ship with IceWM, fluxbox, jwm, herbstluftwm ootb (depending on version)
3. Rox desktop will be default
4. antiX-full will fit on a cd

Remember - "lean and mean" is our motto.
We aim to support old hardware and the latest and greatest.

Post suggestions.

Dev team reserves the right to ignore your requests :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: antiX-16
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:43 am 
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Posts: 264
Great, that users are being asked. Maybe some good ideas will come together. My ideas:
#1: Ship with an Openbox session.[Edit: I'm taking this proposal back.]
#2: New icons, either monochrome or flat or what is the next trend? Need to be with enough PNG icons.
#3: Optional: Fluxbox menu with clean icons, see my screenshots post44483.html#p44483 (The icons don't need to be 32x32, that's just my preference. The icon theme should simply have enough icons for say 24x24. Such icons can be probably created with imagemagick from SVG icons.)
#4: Use a kernel with BFQ I/O scheduler.


Last edited by eugen-b on Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: antiX-16
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:28 am 
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Posts: 3954
Location: Pecos, Texas
That's what I am talking about. What he said.

Build it and they will come.'
There will always be a ingrate that likes to throw a dead cat into a party zone.

BYODE (bring your own desktop environment)
It is not like they are not available for a date or relationship.
And like a relationship.
I am not going to waste my time on telling you how to act or make her compliant.

How do you like me now? (because this is how I am when sick and with a fever and feeling like a coyote crapped me off a cliff).


suggestions?
Keep XMMS working. If not. Audacious is cool also as a substitute for XMMS.
MPV has been the bomb. As well as SM-Tube player.
Midnight Commander, SMXI, MOCP, Debian Testing, /usr/local/bin, Speed of operating system, are what keep me here.

Keep OpenBox off of here. We already have FluxBox and I do not want to learn a new Window manager and build a new config tool for openbox when we have already dialed in JWM,ICEWM,and FLUXBOX in the antixcc. Openbox is available from synaptic if a user prefers to use that instead. Also Crunchbang/Bunsen Labs and BBQLinux already have openbox covered in their releases. (sorry eugene-b. that is how I feel). If I wish that kind of setup.
It is already been covered in Debian spinoffs.

My icons in fluxbox menu look OK. Using Fienza-cuppertino-mini.
http://i.imgur.com/J74aGX9.jpg

I have to carry/boot into my other linux installs using network manager when planning on tethering my
Iphone 5S because for whatever reason. I am not skilled enough for wicd or ceni to connect/see my Iphone 5s, as a modem. Not a suggestion. Just mentioning a fact of life for me.

It is the Only hiccup I have with using AntiX. I do not consider it worth it by, uninstalling wicd and installing network-manager just for the iphone. Mainly because on the off chance that that action will not fix the problem of not seeing my iphone as a wireless interface.

It is just easier for me. With all my gear. To substitute out one piece of hardware for another when dealing with the iphone. So this is my only mention of this in my history of posting here.
I can live with that.

I am sure other members have newer gear than I and better suggestions also.
Back to my hole. Feeling miserable.
Maybe I should have not posted?

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 Post subject: Re: antiX-16
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:14 am 
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I'd desktop-session is staying around I would like to see less duplication of the startup files. Maybe a set of defaults .conf in / etc and then the startup files in the user diretories.

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eeepc 904ha antix 15 32 bit (streaming media player)
sony laptop amd 900mhz duran 512mb ram, antix 13 32-bit
lenovo s21e - 2gb ram, celeron - antiX-16 64 bit


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 Post subject: Re: antiX-16
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:21 am 
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antix15 pretty well covered the bases for preinstalled apps.
The sole addition I'd recommend for consideration is "cherrytree" notekeeping app (2.2Mb pkg).

Will antix16 be based on jessie, or testing?
FWIW, I've found that synaptic v0.82.5 is bugged (locks up if the "reporitories" dialog is opened)
and the newest version of spacefm, v1.0.4, drags in an extra 8 or so dependent packages.
I've lost track of which versions are currently in jessie repo.

If antix16 will still include Mirage, with a quick/easy fix it's capable of taking (and cropping) screenshots.
I posted details of the fix to the "Tips" subforum a while ago.

I've read that the devs aren't keen on messing with default configurations of the preinstalled applications,
but IMO that (curation, toward assurance of "sensible defaults", "best practices", and "improved usability")
along with expanded documentation, was really the only less-than-ideal aspect of antix15.

Roky posted an awesome color-gradient conky graph. I posted a couple geany themes. cwilliams shared some icewm themes.
It's probably important to try to fit such contribs into the distro, in order to encourage increased participation by "do-ers".

On the subject of of themes, the quantity of themes preinstalled in antix15 seemed too much, too overwhelming to sift through.
If those were weeded, all but a dozen or so for each window manager moved to an optional post-install "extra themes" ackage...
frees a bit of space in the iso and avoids overwhelming the new user with choices.


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 Post subject: Re: antiX-16
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:07 pm 
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@Roky, to include Openbox might bring new users to antiX. It is probably the most popular WM and many people know how to use it. They will see on Distrowatch that antiX ships with Openbox and maybe consider trying it out. On the other hand many of probably don't know how to set it up from scratch. Therefore the possibility to install it from Synaptic will probably not win these users. The fact that others ship with it is probably not an argument agains it, but in favour of it, because it might help winning users from all these distros.

The Fluxbox menu on your screenshot is nice, how did you create it, manually? What is the size of the monitor? Can you give some examples of the lines in ~/.fluxbox/menu?

And I should have added a sentece: eugen-b will very well understand if his suggestions don't get adopted, they are just ideas.

Wish you a speedy recovery, Rok!


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 Post subject: Re: antiX-16
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:59 pm 
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Posts: 27
For me IceWM beter choice as default WM. I have own dark theme foe IceWM http://kernelultras.org/index.php?shell ... ok-fm.jpg+ project is here https://github.com/KERNELULTRAS/LegacyIce-antiX

Make package IceWM from this active development fork https://github.com/bbidulock/icewm
Developers are very friendly.

Remove systemd dependence of NetworkManager, Wicd is a poor substitute. I spoke with the one developer of NM he would be able to help. I everyday connect into proxy with login, Wifi, wired Net and tethering, Wicd for this is a disaster.

PS: Thank mates for this wonderful distro. Can I help you? My English is terrible but Linux enviroment
I know well.

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 Post subject: Re: antiX-16
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:59 pm 
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Location: Pecos, Texas
I still am not well enough to do the tutorial you asked for as far as tint2rc + Fluxbox + Desktop Launchers in tint2 + byteonpanel + all the other tweaks I did in 20??.

Nasty bug in me for now from Mexico/Texas. Thanks for the well wishes. I am not all anit-OpenBox.
It is a Window Manager and I have played with LXDE core AntiX 8.5 core installs.
I get your point about popularity. So I will back off and see what happens next.

This netbook screen is 1024x600
~./fluxbox/menu on this is
Code:
[begin] (--antiX--)
    [exec] (Terminal) {desktop-defaults-run -t} </usr/share/icons/Faenza-Cupertino-mini/apps/32/terminal.png>
    [exec] (File Manager) {desktop-defaults-run -fm} </usr/share/icons/Faenza-Cupertino-mini/apps/32/file-manager.png>
    [separator]
    [exec] (Web Browser) {desktop-defaults-run -b} </usr/share/icons/Faenza-Cupertino-mini/apps/32/web-browser.png>
    [exec] (Editor) {desktop-defaults-run -te} </usr/share/icons/Faenza-Cupertino-mini/apps/32/text-editor.png>
    [separator]
    [submenu] (Personal) </usr/share/icons/Faenza-Cupertino-mini/apps/32/config-users.png>
        [begin] (Personal)
        [include] (~/.fluxbox/personal)
    [end]
    [submenu] (Applications) </usr/share/icons/Faenza-Cupertino-mini/categories/32/applications-accessories.png>
        [begin] (Applications)
        [include] (~/.fluxbox/menu-applications)
    [end]
    [exec] (Update Menu) {desktop-menu --write-out-global} </usr/share/icons/Faenza-Cupertino-mini/apps/32/update-manager.png>
    [separator]
    [submenu] (Desktop) </usr/share/icons/Faenza-Cupertino-mini/places/32/user-desktop.png>
        [submenu] (Other Desktops) </usr/share/icons/Faenza-Cupertino-mini/places/32/user-desktop.png>
            [begin] (Other Desktops)
            [include] (/usr/share/desktop-session/wm-menus/fluxbox-wm-menu)
        [end]
        [exec] (RoxPanel on/off) {paneltoggle.sh} </usr/share/icons/Faenza-Cupertino-mini/apps/32/gnome-panel.png>
        [exec] (Conky on/off) {conkytoggle.sh} </usr/share/icons/Faenza-Cupertino-mini/apps/32/utilities-system-monitor.png>
    [end]
    [separator]
        [exec] (App Killer) {xkill} </usr/share/icons/Faenza-Cupertino-mini/actions/32/gtk-no.png>
    [exec] (Control Centre) {antixcc.sh} </usr/share/icons/Faenza-Cupertino-mini/categories/32/preferences-desktop.png>
    [separator]
    [submenu] (Help) </usr/share/icons/Faenza-Cupertino-mini/apps/32/help-browser.png>
        [submenu] (antiX) </usr/share/icons/Faenza-Cupertino-mini/places/32/folder.png>
            [exec] (antiX Videos) {dillo /usr/share/antiX/antix_help_videos.html}
            [exec] (antiX FAQ) {dillo /usr/share/antiX/FAQ/index.html}
            [exec] (antiX-live How-To) {dillo /usr/share/antiX/Boot_Menu/antiX-gfxboot.html}
            [separator]
            [exec] (Rox Manual) {dillo http://rox.sourceforge.net/Manual/Manual/Manual.html}
        [end]
        [separator]
        [submenu] (Fluxbox) </usr/share/icons/Faenza-Cupertino-mini/places/32/folder.png>
            [exec] (Fluxbox Docs) {dillo http://fluxbox.sourceforge.net/docbook/en/html/}
            [exec] (Fluxbox FAQ) {dillo http://fluxbox-wiki.org/index.php/Faqs}
            [exec] (Fluxbox Wiki) {dillo http://fluxbox-wiki.org/index.php/Fluxbox-wiki}
            [separator]
            [exec] (Arch Wiki) {dillo http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fluxbox}
        [end]
        [separator]
        [submenu] (Applications) </usr/share/icons/Faenza-Cupertino-mini/places/32/folder.png>
            [exec] (Firewall) {dillo https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Gufw}
            [exec] (Partimage) {dillo http://www.partimage.org/Partimage-manual_Usage}
        [end]
        [submenu] (Man Pages) </usr/share/icons/Faenza-Cupertino-mini/places/32/folder.png>
            [exec] (Backup) {desktop-defaults-run -t man luckybackup}
            [exec] (Irssi) {desktop-defaults-run -t man irssi}
            [exec] (mc) {desktop-defaults-run -t man mc}
            [exec] (mocp) {desktop-defaults-run -t man mocp}
            [exec] (Nano) {desktop-defaults-run -t man nano}
            [exec] (Rss/Atom) {desktop-defaults-run -t man newsbeuter}
            [exec] (Terminal) {desktop-defaults-run -t man urxvt}
            [exec] (Torrent) {desktop-defaults-run -t man rtorrent}
        [end]
    [end]
    [exec] (Run) {gexec} </usr/share/icons/Faenza-Cupertino-mini/actions/32/system-run.png>
    [submenu] (Fluxbox Settings) </usr/share/icons/Faenza-Cupertino-mini/categories/32/applications-system.png>
        [config] (Configuration)
        [submenu] (Styles) <Style>
            [stylesdir] (~/.fluxbox/styles)
            [stylesmenu] (Fluxbox Styles) {/usr/share/fluxbox/styles}
        [end]
        [workspaces] (Workspaces)
        [separator]
        [reconfig] (Reconfigure)
        [restart] (Restart)
    [end]
    [exec] (Exit) {desktop-session-exit} </usr/share/icons/Faenza-Cupertino-mini/actions/32/application-exit.png>
[end]


I do my own menu tweaking on bigger screens like my 32 inch TV monitor when it comes
~./fluxbox/init
I am a fly by night kind of linux user that does his own thing without really documenting how I poke and hope
my way through config files. So I fly by the seat of my pants, so to speak.

Quote:
They will see on Distrowatch that antiX ships with Openbox and maybe consider trying it out. On the other hand many of probably don't know how to set it up from scratch.


that alone will cut me and other members out of the loop. When the openbox threads start.
Unless you answer everyone of them and other new OpenBox savvy members chime in.
Some asking, "How do I ********** OpenBox" will not get any answers from me.
Not out of hate. But because, I frankly do not know.
I spent long lonely nights tweaking my LXDE AntiX 8.5 core install.
Lost Slim login. Had to go with XDG log in. I realize things have progressed since then.
But I was a lost puppy on my own back then, with LXDE and OpenBox .

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 Post subject: Re: antiX-16
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:25 pm 
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Posts: 1085
When wrestling to fit everything in the target iso size, consider bumping smtube to "available via metapackages installer" status.
Suggesting this due to smtube's dependence on 37Mb libqtwebkit4

Here's a suggested pattern for the cleanup portion of the build-iso script (and/or general excludes file):
/usr/share/doc/*/changelog*.gz

reminder (as discussed in the "speed up your linux box" thread):
speed-up-your-linux-box-t124.html
Specifying a lower "swappiness" default value (vs antix15) would be a welcome change

Quote:
#4: Use a kernel with BFQ I/O scheduler
I hope you're suggesting "kernel with support for BFQ", not "BFQ specified as default scheduler"
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.ph ... 67.15.html


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 Post subject: Re: antiX-16
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:30 pm 
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Posts: 264
@roky, forgot to ask one more question: What is the value of menu.itemHeight: in your Fluxbox style config file?

The Openbox thing is not a priority to me, it got #1 simply because it came to my mind first. After I wrote it I also saw anti's 2nd point more clearly which can be interpreted as "these and only these WMs". If I read his post more carufully I would probably not have mentioned anything about openbox.

I really like bedna's design!

#5: Make Evince work OOTB with gvfs (opening the file on the same page on which it was closed) if possible without eating too many ressources. post44106.html#p44106

@skidoo, BFQ on Liquorix kernel had a noticably better performance on my slow machin than the antix kernel I tested, can't find the thread ATM; Edit: here it is post44044.html#p44044
If BFQ should not be default that is not a problem, a user can add elevator=bfq to Grub. Even if the antix kernel should not support BFQ, a user can simply add Liquorix repo.
The discussion on PCLinuxOS forum I find rather superficial and not convincing.


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 Post subject: Re: antiX-16
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:20 pm 
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dolphin_oracle wrote:
I'd desktop-session is staying around I would like to see less duplication of the startup files. Maybe a set of defaults .conf in / etc and then the startup files in the user diretories.



OK so... if I understand correctly:
1. get rid of the global configuration options in / etc and make /user the only option. (rather than per user override)
2. place a default configuration setup for the user in the / etc/skel/ folder. (normally what was in / etc/desktop-session)

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 Post subject: Re: antiX-16
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:31 pm 
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Dave wrote:
dolphin_oracle wrote:
I'd desktop-session is staying around I would like to see less duplication of the startup files. Maybe a set of defaults .conf in / etc and then the startup files in the user diretories.



OK so... if I understand correctly:
1. get rid of the global configuration options in / etc and make /user the only option. (rather than per user override)
2. place a default configuration setup for the user in the / etc/skel/ folder. (normally what was in / etc/desktop-session)


that sounds better than what I was thinking. going through the threads, there were lot of startup file questions.

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eeepc 904ha antix 15 32 bit (streaming media player)
sony laptop amd 900mhz duran 512mb ram, antix 13 32-bit
lenovo s21e - 2gb ram, celeron - antiX-16 64 bit


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 Post subject: Re: antiX-16
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:55 am 
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Posts: 72
Location: Rochester New York USA
I hope I don't come off seeming like the ultimate antiX fanboy , but I hope '16 is very much like '15.
I've used probably the last 4 versions and they just get better every time.
Actually I started using antiX shortly after Mepis 4.3 (I think).
It's really the fastest (nearly) most versatile OS I've ever tried.
I had it on a T22 laptop (P3) and my current I5 quad core , it's really that good.
It's insanely fast on newer hardware.
The antiX control center is the handiest thing for a new user to get a great system up and running without having to know all kinds of
"linux" specific backround.
When you guys break down the config files into workable chunks in the /home directory , a great deal of fear of borking the system is alleviated and allow less talented people (like me) to customize the stuffing out of the system easily.
I would like to see the antixcc added to the base install for those newbies that need a really trim system , but need a crutch for customizing it later.
The basic installed programs are pretty well selected , that's going to be hard to improve on.
The installer is about the best I've seen on any distro I've used.
I tried openbox , it's nice , but not for the newbie user at all.
The WM's for a default install are excellent choices , that herbstluftwm tied me in a knot , so I gave up on that one.
SU and Sudo is kinda cool , but I'm so used to SU , maybe the Ubuntu people will like it better for migrating.
I guess my only suggestion for '16 would be to make it as newbie friendly as possible , suggest new users to join the forum , get ready for stupid questions (newbies), don't beat them up for it when they ask , we were all beginners at linux at one time.
Seasoned users sometimes forget where they started and what hurdles they jumped to get there.
I was a windows user once , but an antiX user now by choice , the forum was not a deciding factor for me , but for some it will be.
It's a great bunch of people , that's why I participate now.
Oh yeah , I'd stick with stable repos , as a default , the system needs to work well for new people until they want to experiment with less stable systems later , JMHO.
Colin


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 Post subject: Re: antiX-16
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:11 am 
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Thanks for ALL the feedback so far.

I forgot to mention that antiX-16 will be systemd-free (like antiX-15 and unlike Debian). We will also come with eudev by default (that is a systemd-free udev).

Testing or stable? My personal preference is for antiX-16 to be based off Testing (that is our roots). antiX-15 is already based on stable and will be supported until the end of Debian Jessie lifespan - at least until 2019, probably longer. I can provide updated antiX-15 with minimal changes from the original a bit like Debian does with its point releases.

Added: antiX-16 stable based is 698MB. Exact same apps on testing is 798MB!

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 Post subject: Re: antiX-16
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:51 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:58 pm
Posts: 449
Location: Sheboygan, WI
Being new to linux, some thoughts.
Antix, I like because it runs fine on this Old Dell D630 , my favorite lap warmer, right out of the box.
And the USB stick even boots the newest computer my clients have and I can get it onto the interet and get what I need.
Just wish it had a easier way to access the hdds installed in the computer, like MX15 does but MX-15 has problems with Dell, toshiba and the hp notepads.

Sound , being Deaf, I forgo it , but use dolphin_oracle,s videos as they do have CC on them. Use a 23" monitor or a 40" tv for that. Those videos are GOOD!

" IceWM, fluxbox, jwm, herbstluftwm ootb" What are those??? Maybe in the future I will dig deeper and figure out what they are. Just a though on what some folks feel important.
Been retired over 30 years, so that effects some on what I will/will not do.


Enjoy learning about Linux and I greatly appreciate the help I have received!


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